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robert
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PostSubject: payment system   Sun 25 May - 14:04

hello there,
I don't know if a payment system has already been mentioned (I haven't read the whole forum yet). In case, it wasn't mentioned yet :

A while ago I had an idea for a possible and probably working payment system for starpeace (as I have seen that in other online (browser) games)

I already posted some parts of this idea yesterday in mr matts sourceforge forum, but to make sure everyone reads it, I'll post it here, too - with some new ideas as well Wink

--------------- SNIP --------------------

....

A Payment should be optional and people should still be able to play even if they don't pay at all.

for example, on molehill empire or kapi regnum they use a "coins"-system.

People can buy coins with real money (by phone call, sms, wire transfer, paypal, credit card....).
Those coins are needed to enhance the player's account to a premium account.
There are also some products which are only available with coins.
Coins could also be used to convert it in game money.

With a premium account players get some extra features which are not available with a normal account.
The premium account is limited in time (usually one real month). If this time is over and you haven't converted some coins again to a premium account, the account falls back to a normal account .


The interesting part is : Ingame, coins are a good which can be traded like everything else.
So even if you don't pay real money at all, you can convert your account to a premium account just by buying some coins in game at the marketplace for game money.
I know players who have already paid ~50 Euros (real cash) within 1-2 months and others who have never paid a cent (real cash) but who have a premium account as well, just by buying coins ingame and converting them into the premium account.

------------------------------------------------------

Just an idea how this could be implemented in starpeace3, legacyonline2, legacyclone, whatever Wink

  • 1 EUR/Dollar = 20 coins
  • 1 month premium account = 100 coins
  • coins can be converted to ingame cash.. like 1 coin = $10,000,000 at the IFEL
  • ingame cash can be converted to coins... like $20,000,000 = 1 coin at level 1, $40,000,000 = 1 coin at level 2,...

  • maybe trading game cash into coins shouldn't be possible at lower levels....

  • On the other hand it should cost really a lot of ingame cash for high level players, otherwise it would be too easy
    for them to get permanent premium accounts. Maybe 1 Trillion at level legend or whatever.
  • In case players can sell coins to other players: to avoid abuses, minimum and maximum tradeprice for coins should be limited. But I prefer an IFEL-Only solution (only IFEL can convert coins in game cash and vice versa)


  • buildings with lots of prestige like statues should only be available with a premium account.
    This would make it much harder to level up in higher levels if you don't pay real cash

    (actually getting prestige was way too easy in all former starpeace versions)

  • All politics should be limited to premium users only (like in patrician online)
  • Movie studios should also be available with a premium account.
  • maybe CF factories as well and some other buildings, too
  • Some buildings (or seals like magna) should only be available with coins only, so collecting coins is necessary (no matter where the coins come from) even if somone does not have a premium account
  • premium user get twice as much slots as normal users beginning with level paradigm or legend
  • a limited amount of extra slots can be borrowed with coins (like 1 slot = 2 coins, maximum 10 extra slots per level). That means you need to have a number of coins in your account to keep those slots. if you use those coins for other things like converting to money or buying a premium account, those extra slots get lost and buildings which were built on them get autodemolished (with a big warning )


  • if an account is converted from premium to normal, all buildings which can only built as a premium user, stay - but stop working (and lose money from now or don't make any prestige anymore). Also an autodemolish timer should be started which stops if the account is changed to a premium one again. Otherwise the buildings will be gone after ~ 2 real months.....

  • probably this payment system could replace those ingame banks we had in starpeace/legacyonline.

However, this was just an idea.... but I guess this could be the best solution for maximum fun in game play and getting some cash into the game/project. Actually I wish we would have had such a payment system from the very beginning of starpeace Sad
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zutaty
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PostSubject: ......   Mon 26 May - 12:15

that's could be a great idea, but we dont need CF and need to block some CF for people dont pay ...


but good way for me
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robert
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Fri 30 May - 21:44

zutaty wrote:
that's could be a great idea, but we dont need CF and need to block some CF for people dont pay ...


but good way for me

cf is actually a good idea but the way it was implemented needs to be reworked.

and I agree.. free players shouldn't have access to players' cf. Especially not to too cheap and expensive cf.

Maybe for cf we should have different warehouses (construction warehouse) which cannot be accessed by free players....
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Breosa



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PostSubject: free planet vs paid planet   Wed 4 Jun - 0:07

One solution to this of course is two different directory servers. One where its free. limited number of planets and then a second game where you have to pay for it with more planets or different settings like Speed edition etc. At this point I'm just trying to bring the old system as it was back online. Like the idea though seen it in a few different games.

Cheers,
Breosa
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zutaty
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PostSubject: breosa   Wed 4 Jun - 11:18

Quote :
One solution to this of course is two different directory servers. One where its free. limited number of planets and then a second game where you have to pay for it with more planets or different settings like Speed edition etc. At this point I'm just trying to bring the old system as it was back online. Like the idea though seen it in a few different games.


near the same as pugg idea no ???
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Crazysky
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Mon 9 Jun - 20:50

I think we must see before the player have to pay.
How much it will cost to the owner of SP to host the game ?
As a fan of starpeace i'm ready to give money to support the server, if other people do like me i think we are able to host a little server for the begining.

Like in France we have "Dedibox" a good Full Dedicated server for 36€/months (linux or Windows ... but must have a liscence :-/).

If it's for free people will play to Starpeace, if we have to pay ... it's over Smile

The "VIP" system isn't good for a game like SP ... it's a coportation game, how to give VIP function without (don't know how to say it in english ... rah!) let "free" people on the back (not sure if you understand).

Best solution still the fans support with a plan where we ask to people to make a promise to give X€ per month for X month.

With this idea we can think about thanks people by printing theire name on the Website, or allow to send adds on the web site Smile

A lot of things are possible without unbalance the game.

instead ... i'm ready to pay for SP ... only beacause i love this game. But new player will never do it.
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PostSubject: ...   Tue 10 Jun - 2:08

Quote :
i think we are able to host a little server for the begining.


Not so small remember zyrane.... i think we could be betwen 10-25 player.

for other... VIP..perhaps but if you have a nonpay player could dont go more than master for exemple and can't build some building ? just a idea.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tu as l'air d'etre francophone au minimum, en francais sa seras mieux non Smile

donc, un petit serveur oui mais tu as besoin d'anticipation pour le futur. SP2 a vite eu besoin d'un serveur convenable car trop de monde. donc pas un trop petit.

L'idee du VIP me derange un peut, le free de pugg me plait bien mais il faudrais le limiter plus alors. dans le cas d'un vip les non vip serais limiter en niveau et en batiment a construire.

pour le prix, cela resteras payant a moins de trouver une source d'argent genre pub integrer. on le sait tous sa reste presque impossible. L'idee d'un prix bas qui ne prendrais en compte que le prix du serveur oui, mais.... il faudrais calculer au plus juste car le passage le l'un a l'autre demandera des investissemet minimal.... scratch hehe
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Crazysky
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Tue 10 Jun - 22:48

i've played before on Legacy Online and the limitation was a bad idea ; with a game like Starpeace if we want people we can't block in evolution. But maybe we can block some function like acces to Mayor, president or ministry.
Block Magna corp ?

If we are not in comercial use (as the owner of SP seems to think => Non-profit use) we can't do the same thing as a corporation would do.

and we can take ideas i've said before (like adds on the website about corps of Pay-player).

---------------

Au niveau du serveur, j'aimerai justement connaitre la configuration conseillé par les devs, car dans le cas où il sera possible de créer son monde (pour en faire un Fr par exemple) je suis bien partant pour partager les frais pour un serveur dédié.
Je me suis renseigner les premières offre Windows (liscence comprise donc) c'est du serveur 2003 ou 2008 pour 50€/mois

Pour voir si c'est réalisable ; et surtout connaitre la consommation BP,Mémoire, processeur, par slot occupé.

Pour la publicité, sincèrement tu ne peux pas en vivre mise à part si tu as une 20 aines de personne qui sont organisé pour générer des revenus publicitaire, mais cela reste une source de revenu complémentaire si nous souhaitons conserver une ergonomie agréable et personnalisé pour Starpeace.

En ce qui concerne le prix à payer pour jouer à starpeace si nous partons sur une idée de payer pour payer le serveur dédié et les différentes charges qui sont lié à starpeace (hebergement web, nom de domaine, ...) il faut aussi prendre en compte que l'équipe sera obligé de faire des bénéfices pour les investir. Imaginez qu'ils partent sur une idée de 5€/mois ; c'est correcte non ? Maintenant on commence donc à 5€ ; si on part sur la config que j'ai trouvé, a partir de 10 joueurs le serveur est maintenue, au delà c'est :
- 60€/an pour un domaine + hébergement (largement suffisant si on part sur un nombre de visiteur unique de 100 /jours) : 5*12 = 60€ => 22 joueurs = Serveur dédié maintenue + hebergement web assuré dès le premier mois, donc si on part sur une prévision en 2 mois nous avons 2 années d'hébergement web + domaine d'assuré.


Tout le reste dépend entièrement de la consommation par joueur. si c'est 3mo de ram + 0,5% de CPU + 10ko/sec de bp ... ça va devenir une affaire rentable au 3 ème mois.

Donc j'attends si tu peux me fournir les configuration conseillé par les devs pour un serveur de X joueurs. Je pourrais faire des calculs avec les offres française qui font partie des plus intéressantes du marché.

Voilou ^^
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zutaty
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PostSubject: donc,   Wed 11 Jun - 12:43

a ce jour, pour le peu d'info que j'ai il ne pense pas faire de monde dedier au joueur. Maintenant je peut me tromper. en tout cas a il y a semaine il ne voulais pas.

toujours suivant les infos, il y aurais 1 voir 2 monde. un normal un free. tu as pu lire les infos a ce sujet.

deja, il faut assez des joueurs pour avoir DES mondes. donc je pense qu'il faut le garder sous le coude mais.... De plus si je ne me trompe pas.

Les francais connu "par moi"

Toff, crazy "toi", zutaty"moi", altou, max. ajoute 2-3 joueur de plus tu risque de ne pas etre rentable. a savoir que, je doute que tu fixe ton prix toi meme.tu le feras de maniere benevole. j'ai un doute mais je pense que c'etait le cas avant.

voila Smile
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Crazysky
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Wed 11 Jun - 15:30

Pour le nombre de joueur je comprend, il faudra attendre.
Mais rien n'empêche de préparer le terrain.
Donc si dans le futur ils ne sont pas contre un serveur FR localisé en France, assuré par des passionnés, bénévole ou non (si ils versent une participation, je dis pas non :p)

En tout cas de mon coté, des que Starpeace réouvre ... je contact tous mes potos et j'fais de la pub sur les forums de jeux de gestion xD
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PostSubject: ....   Wed 11 Jun - 15:32

bonne idee, deja avoir une comunauter de joueur francophone sa serais bien Smile
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robert
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Sat 14 Jun - 3:32

Crazysky wrote:
i've played before on Legacy Online and the limitation was a bad idea ; with a game like Starpeace if we want people we can't block in evolution. But maybe we can block some function like acces to Mayor, president or ministry.
Block Magna corp ?

If we are not in comercial use (as the owner of SP seems to think => Non-profit use) we can't do the same thing as a corporation would do.

and we can take ideas i've said before (like adds on the website about corps of Pay-player).

speaking of ads on the website... that's something I forgot to mention.. at least one or two of the mentioned browser games which use the coin system have also some advertisement banners in the game... as long as playing as a free player.


in case of starpeace it could mean for example... in the build menu appears a small advertisement banner below or above the build buttons
pirat


free players shouldn't be limited too much, they should be able to play the game (probably without any politics) from the beginning up to the end... even transcending should/could be possible... but their mausoleums should be able to be demolished or autoremoved after a while if they haven't payed for a while - for example.
It would be better to do it the other way around, payment-players should get some extra options like more detailed lists of their buildings (like I did it for starpeace2 in the shoplist at the spider), so people could see with one or two clicks which buildings works well, which needs to be adjusted and so on.
In the past it was necessary to click around through the whole map, inspect each building to see what was going on (or check the sales values at the warehouses). this could be simplified for paying players.

Maybe payment players should have access to some more buildings than free players. However it's still only an idea. But working quite well in other games.

Howerver - And this politics blocking is something I already mentioned. Only payment players should be able to have political power.
--------------------------------------------------------------
by the way, in my payment example of converting coins to cash and vice versa there was a mistake.

In those games I play, coins can be bought with real cash... those coins can be ingame sold with game cash to other players. So you get the money and another player gets the coins.
In other words: those coins are still running around in the game.
There is no way by converting ingame cash to coins with a system trader. That works only with player2player trades. It's only possible to convert coins into money or premium account or extra stuff. Once converted by the systems, those coins don't float around anymore in the game.
So all coins you see at the marketplace in the game have been bought with real cash at some time in the past. There's no way to create coins out of void.

The coin tree is like the following one:
1) real cash -> coins
2.1) coins -> premium account ==> coins disappear
2.2) coins -> some extra stuff which is only available with coins (*) ==> coins disappear
2.3) coins -> game cash by system ==> coins disappear
2.4) coins -> game cash by other players ==> coins are still in the game and can be used again - this time by a different user

(*) this stuff can be sold only with ingame cash, so there's no way to recreate those coins

3.1) not possible: game cash -> coins
3.2) not possible: extra stuff -> coins

[/size]
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Crazysky
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PostSubject: Re: payment system   Sat 14 Jun - 14:42

Hum they can add a little ad like google ad in game in the little freespace.

it won't be a problem for player, but never an ad system like puggy pop-up.

I've forget the best way for payment system :
- Think about different possibility to get a "prenium account" : Paypal yes for 12/6/3/2/1 month
- But for less than 1 month !!! => Call To Pay ; you call a number (taxed) and they give you a serial to give on the website. this would allow "teens" to get a prenium. It's not cheapest but you don't have to pay for one month ... and to try it's the best way Wink
- Create "sponsor" system : If you invite 2 people to get a 1 month prenium account you get 5% reduce for the next order. 5 people : 10%. The number are totaly wrong but it explain what i think.
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